Mediocre Man Vs. Provocation II

Got a facebook email from *Frank* this AM.

Hey MM, I wasn't taking a shot at you personally. I sometimes consider it a bit unfair to take all of the shots at Bush. It has become politically hip to denigrate him. I didn't agree with a lot of his policies either, but I sometimes feel that he is far less appreciated for what he did do, and the manner in which he did it. I usually like to call things as I see them and don't always go with the flow. Good discourse here though, and no offense intended and none taken.

To which I responded:

Hey Frank,

I never felt that our discourse strayed into ad hominem territory. It seems we are making the same point only from opposite sides. It has become equally popular to denigrate Obama. I just feel passionately that people should look at things from both sides before passing judgment. I wasn't a Bush fan but I can agree that he did some things right. It may surprise you that I am not a big Obama fan either, despite having voted for him. In times like these we need fiscal responsibility, not rampant spending and governmental nannying. It may also surprise you that I voted for some republicans in the midterm election for those reason exactly. I'm pretty centrist really. 

I never felt attacked. I just enjoy a good honest argument now and then and can get a little punchy. Likewise, no offense was intended and none was taken.

And then to the thread, which continues:

My friend the Bushist: I do not think we can color confusion . Confusion is a state of mind. Bush did what he needed to do to protect our country. I do not agree with a lot of his policies. But, you have to agree that with the current President we have now, is that he does not have a clue.

Roger: 8 years with Bush ,2 with Obama, 10 years of confusion. i believe the old addage is true, men will not ask for directions when they are lost. (2 people like this. Me and Frank.) 

Frank:  Well put *MM, Bushist and Roger*. I believe the whole political process as it stands now is lost. The political dialogue is mostly being hijacked by both far right and far left activists who conveniently control different aspects of either the ...media or vast amounts of capital that is used to control back door attempts and sometimes not so back door attempts to sway public opinion through quite often not totally honest statements. The problem is that what makes common sense to a far righter is abhorrent to a far lefter and vice versa. And most people for years have become far removed from the political process. The average voter is far less informed than he or she should be. And political advertising consists of mostly dishonest or disingenuous sound bites. The answer ? At stake ? What direction is this country going to go in. Will it continue to to be what the forefathers set it up to be ? Or is it even that now ? This is a very interesting time in the history of this country and so, for the world. We might not all realize it but the future as we will live it is being determined as we go. There is truth in what all of us have written here but ultimately the people we elect will determine that direction. Food for thought for us all. (2 people like this. Me and Roger) 


Me: To Roger's point: I couldn't agree more. The thing is, we aren't going to fix 8 years of mess in 2 years. I voted for Obama, but I'm not exactly thrilled with the rampant spending in a time where fiscal responsibility is needed. I just think it is fair to cut the guy a little bit of a break considering the shit storm he walked into. Anybody stepping into that office, even old Crusty McDusty McCain himself would have been hard pressed to please anyone in such a climate.

And to Frank's statement: Again, couldn't agree more. Somewhere along the lines we forgot to be a nation of, for, and by the people and became a nation of, for, and by the highest bidders. Our government was lost the second it became a get rich quick scheme with officials in the pockets of big business. I understand the system needs money to grease the wheels, but I also don't want my government run on the whims of billionaire industry looking for more billions.

Gentlemen, good discourse. It was a supreme pleasure to converse with such well versed individuals.






And we all live happily ever after. 


(Surprise! I'm not a Democrat as I am often accused. I vote independent of party affiliation.)

Mediocre Man Vs. Provocation

Why do people provoke me? Seriously!

Another tale of woe from the Facebook chronicles. A friend of mine (despite his irrational love of the retard formerly known as President Bush) posted a link to Dubya's new memoir with the caption "He did care about this country!" Which was fine. I took no umbrage to this.  We are all entitled to our opinions. I didn't like Bush or his policies, but my friend did and I respect that. As a rational human being I don't understand it, but I respect it.

Of course, then the right wing loons have to come out and play. This is the thread, word for word (names changed of course) that ensued.


Frank: He took one for us and never complained or defended himself. He protected the country and the office of the President. (2 people like this)


Deb: LMAO! History will tell.

Me: no comment (aren't we having fun!)


Karen: *name removed* are you sure that's not a coloring book he's signing? (1 person likes this. Me.) 


Jane: *Karen* funny comment will give ya that..but be is alright..straight shooter and 1000xs better than the dickhead that is in office now!

(now my ire is stirred.)

Me: Forget not who the present dickhead inherited his mess from.

My friend who posted: brotha you do have to remember who put us there. Barney Frank Chris Dodd (Housing mess), wow they were Democrats, and they controlled Congress. *Karen* I hope so I like to color. (2 people like this)


Jane: Yes *MM* it was his fellow dickhead democrats in the house. (1 person likes this)


Frank: George Bush didn't create the housing mess (Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and liberal Dem lending rules) nor did he create a no win climate in the US auto industy (unions). He did instill confidence and a sense of unity and pride after 9-11, which everyone seems to forget. I would have had no other Pres on 9-12. And, he is a selfless, sincere Patriot, proud to be an American, which cannot be said about the current socialist apologizer. (1 person likes this) 


Me: Bush also got us into a useless war that has cost us trillions of dollars. And the housing crisis started before the Clinton administration when the elder Bush administration chose to ignore warnings about derivatives regulation. I'm not blowing rainbows up Obama's ass here, I'm just saying that the right has a tendency to ignore/forget the past while blaming the new guy for everything their party is responsible for.

(Am I the only one being reasonable here or am I playing devils advocate?) 


Bill: And the left contiues to believe in "HOPE".....close my eyes and let's hope this all gets better in the morning? It was the Dems that refused to have Freddie & Fannie investigated by stating that both (freddie & fannie) were stable....according to Barney Frank....but then again maybe Barney was having a conversation about the TABLE....being stable.


( I think Bill tried to make a funny and failed.)


Me: I dont disagree about the left's unrealistic optimism. I just think that if people are going to lay blame and point fingers they should at least attempt to learn the facts involved. Blind obsequence, regardless of party affiliation, does nobody any good.

Frank: it seems the blind obsequence started with your quote "Forget not who the present dickhead inherited his mess from". Don't forget, despite the rejection that just happened in this last election, both Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have all stated that they "didn't properly sell their message to the American people". The American people know exactly what they are selling, and that is exactly why the people aren't buying !

(I don't think Frank knows what "obsequence" means.)  


Jane: Bravo *Frank* well said!   (yeah, he really showed me!)

Me: Color me confused. How exactly is my original statement blind obsequence? Are you denying that the current administration inherited a mess of a war and trillions of dollars of deficits and record debt incurred by the Bush administration? I ...harbor no illusions that the Obama administration is infallible, but nor do I think the Bush administration is inculpable. I never claimed that Obama hasn't had his failings, just that it is unfair, and lazy, to lay blame solely on the Obama administration. My original statement was not an indictment, but rather a call for rational thought. Something I often forget is an unreasonable expectation when dealing with single minded party extremists on either side of the aisle.

My point... if you are too lazy, or just incapable of doing your homework before running your mouth... STFU.  

I'll update if any further developments occur.