Hey MM, I wasn't taking a shot at you personally. I sometimes consider it a bit unfair to take all of the shots at Bush. It has become politically hip to denigrate him. I didn't agree with a lot of his policies either, but I sometimes feel that he is far less appreciated for what he did do, and the manner in which he did it. I usually like to call things as I see them and don't always go with the flow. Good discourse here though, and no offense intended and none taken.To which I responded:
Hey Frank,
I never felt that our discourse strayed into ad hominem territory. It seems we are making the same point only from opposite sides. It has become equally popular to denigrate Obama. I just feel passionately that people should look at things from both sides before passing judgment. I wasn't a Bush fan but I can agree that he did some things right. It may surprise you that I am not a big Obama fan either, despite having voted for him. In times like these we need fiscal responsibility, not rampant spending and governmental nannying. It may also surprise you that I voted for some republicans in the midterm election for those reason exactly. I'm pretty centrist really.
I never felt attacked. I just enjoy a good honest argument now and then and can get a little punchy. Likewise, no offense was intended and none was taken.
And then to the thread, which continues:
My friend the Bushist: I do not think we can color confusion . Confusion is a state of mind. Bush did what he needed to do to protect our country. I do not agree with a lot of his policies. But, you have to agree that with the current President we have now, is that he does not have a clue.
Roger: 8 years with Bush ,2 with Obama, 10 years of confusion. i believe the old addage is true, men will not ask for directions when they are lost. (2 people like this. Me and Frank.)
Frank: Well put *MM, Bushist and Roger*. I believe the whole political process as it stands now is lost. The political dialogue is mostly being hijacked by both far right and far left activists who conveniently control different aspects of either the ...media or vast amounts of capital that is used to control back door attempts and sometimes not so back door attempts to sway public opinion through quite often not totally honest statements. The problem is that what makes common sense to a far righter is abhorrent to a far lefter and vice versa. And most people for years have become far removed from the political process. The average voter is far less informed than he or she should be. And political advertising consists of mostly dishonest or disingenuous sound bites. The answer ? At stake ? What direction is this country going to go in. Will it continue to to be what the forefathers set it up to be ? Or is it even that now ? This is a very interesting time in the history of this country and so, for the world. We might not all realize it but the future as we will live it is being determined as we go. There is truth in what all of us have written here but ultimately the people we elect will determine that direction. Food for thought for us all. (2 people like this. Me and Roger)
Me: To Roger's point: I couldn't agree more. The thing is, we aren't going to fix 8 years of mess in 2 years. I voted for Obama, but I'm not exactly thrilled with the rampant spending in a time where fiscal responsibility is needed. I just think it is fair to cut the guy a little bit of a break considering the shit storm he walked into. Anybody stepping into that office, even old Crusty McDusty McCain himself would have been hard pressed to please anyone in such a climate.
And to Frank's statement: Again, couldn't agree more. Somewhere along the lines we forgot to be a nation of, for, and by the people and became a nation of, for, and by the highest bidders. Our government was lost the second it became a get rich quick scheme with officials in the pockets of big business. I understand the system needs money to grease the wheels, but I also don't want my government run on the whims of billionaire industry looking for more billions.
Gentlemen, good discourse. It was a supreme pleasure to converse with such well versed individuals.
And we all live happily ever after.
(Surprise! I'm not a Democrat as I am often accused. I vote independent of party affiliation.)
I lean very far to the left socially, but fiscally, I do a lot of research before I vote. I voted Democrat for 99% of the candidates here in MA this year, but I voted for a GOP candidate for state treasurer.
ReplyDeleteI've been saying it for years: Dems try to interfere with our wallets and the GOP try to interfere with our private lives. Both need to stop.